Sixty and me - Supporting female business builders

I was so pleased to catch up with this week's guest, Patricia Muir, whose incredible journey is sure to ignite a spark of inspiration within you. So sit back, relax, and prepare to be captivated by Patricia's compelling story and boundless wisdom.

Hailing from the beautiful province of Ontario, Canada, Patricia Muir is an entrepreneur with a trailblazing spirit. Her story began back in 1992 when she recognized an opportunity to bring ISO 9000 standards to non-manufacturing businesses, particularly in the service industry. With her unique ability to interpret and implement these standards, she quickly gained recognition as a leading consultant in her field, driving positive transformations in countless businesses.

But Patricia's journey didn't stop there. Life had more in store for her, and she embraced every twist and turn with unwavering enthusiasm. Today, she is not only a successful entrepreneur but also a passionate advocate for women's empowerment. Her mission is to help women entrepreneurs and executives break through barriers and achieve their dreams, no matter their age or circumstances.

One of the most remarkable aspects of Patricia's story is her unyielding commitment to supporting women over 60, a group that often faces societal prejudices and ageist biases. Patricia's coaching programs and initiatives have become a beacon of hope for women seeking to reenter the workforce after battling cancer or those searching for fulfillment in the second half of their lives.

Throughout her career, Patricia has faced her share of plot twists. One particularly defining moment was when she was unexpectedly fired at the age of 40. Instead of letting it deter her though, she used this setback as fuel for her resilience and determination. This experience opened her eyes to the biases and obstacles that women frequently encounter, especially as they age, and it ignited a fire within her to effect positive change.

With her infectious energy and drive, Patricia has become a game-changer in the realm of women's empowerment. Her coaching approach goes beyond traditional business strategies; it empowers her clients to find their authentic voice, embrace change, and challenge societal norms that attempt to confine their potential.

Through Patricia's story, we'll delve into the profound importance of fostering equity and belonging, not only in the business world but also in every aspect of our lives. Her experiences will serve as a guiding light, showing us that no matter what curveballs life throws our way, we can adapt, grow, and thrive.

So, get ready to be inspired, motivated, and moved by Patricia Muir's incredible story of resilience, compassion, and transformation. Whether you're an entrepreneur, a professional, or simply someone seeking to make positive changes in your life, Patricia's journey will leave an indelible mark on your heart. Enjoy the show!

Episode Transcript

Simon Phillips
Welcome back. This is Simon Phillips and this is The Change show, the show where we explore what it takes to make change happen, what it takes to create change in our lives, in our teams, in our communities, in our organizations. And I'm really delighted that we've got a fantastic guest today who's going to help you see that anything's possible almost at any point in your life, almost in any circumstances.

Simon Phillips
And every time I talk to her, I get a huge smile on my face because I just think, Wow, this is fantastic. So I know you're going to love today's guest, which is Patricia Muir. Patricia, welcome. How are you?

Patricia Muir
Good. Simon, how are you?

Simon Phillips
I'm well. I'm just fantastic because we've had a couple of minutes, hadn't we, beforehand? So I'm sleeping great right now. So for the for the guests at home, Patricia, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Patricia Muir
Okay. My name is Patricia Muir and I am an entrepreneur. I started my business in 1992 and I am also in Ontario, Canada. I was born in the UK, in the Birmingham area. So you know that I've been away from Birmingham for a long time, the way I say that. But I started my business based on an opportunity that was given to me to take.

Patricia Muir
ISO 9000 standards into businesses in Ontario that were not manufacturing. They were service based. So in 1992, with the language around those standards was very manufacturing. And I made a name for myself in this area for being able to interpret the standard so that service industry was able to use it to improve their business.

Simon Phillips
Okay. Well, that's interesting. So as I'm the regular people here to the show will know with that, the change show is powered by the GC index and you and I have been through your GC index and one of the the top two proclivities for you is polisher now ISO 3000. That's all about standards and, and rigor and everything else.

Simon Phillips
So you are probably absolutely delighted to be involved in that activity in the first place.

Patricia Muir
Yes, because it was always about improvement. And so that's, it's very well with who I am, always wanting to make things better. And I try to do that in all areas of life as well. And which sometimes can be a struggle when people don't get it. So I now develop programs that really are out there in the world of coaching women entrepreneurs in particular.

Patricia Muir
And I have a couple of programs that are particular to women entrepreneurs and executives who are returning to work during and after cancer treatment, and also one for women who are looking for fulfillment after the age of 60.

Simon Phillips
MM Interesting. So there's a bit of a gap there then. So between the, the role of helping people with ISO 3000 and then establishing these programs for people who are looking to, you know, establish their own activity, their own businesses, what, what else was included, what else sort of created the Patricia that we see today.

Patricia Muir
Oh well I really appreciated the fact that ISO 9000 standards was an international standard and gave a good framework for businesses that really were did not have any kind of guidelines on what quality services looked like. So it sort of brought in all the other models, including leadership models, to help them to develop their own systems that were based on a standard, but that I could actually help them to make it better so that they weren't getting into the standard and complying.

Patricia Muir
But they were going that step further and having a good integrity based culture in and so that they didn't have to have all sorts of rules or regulations so that they were actually developing a culture that would support the best that they could do in business. And I also transported that over to personal leadership as well. So I worked on personal quality.

Patricia Muir
I wrote a chapter in a book about our personal quality and leadership, which was ahead of its time. And it was a lot of people are talking about it now. But this was that out of its time.

Simon Phillips
And and we talked a little bit about that as well when we were looking at your your GC Index profile because you're by, you know, your biggest proclivity the one you've gotten most energy for is game changer and that obsession with creativity and, and you know, seeing possibilities for how things can be rather than just looking around and making the best of what you've got.

Simon Phillips
You can see things a little bit differently sometimes to other people.

Patricia Muir
Maybe in one of the words that sticks out for me there is I am obsessed about it. So I do see like a better world view history, better world view, a better view of organizations, of communities, of people doing their best as well. So that's how that fits into my profile fits into where I have worked and how I've moved over in certain areas to really value that proclivity that I have.

Simon Phillips
Fantastic. So all of this work then in the ISO 9000 space guessing, you know, from there, Well, well, actually, let's not guess where did you go next? Was it into self-employment? Was it more employment? What do you do next?

Patricia Muir
Well, that was my business. So in 1992, ISO 9000 came in to Ontario in the manufacturing sector, and there was that the push down to any of their suppliers needing to be compliant with ISO 9000. So it opened up a big area and an area where I just sort of got really excited about because it was about the service industry, not about production lines.

Patricia Muir
And so I'd worked in that area. Now I had some amazing contacts with different types of businesses, including like designing chips rather manufacturing chips, like designing spare computers like way back there, and law and commercial real estate. And so I had a great number of clients that really kept me interested in taking this work further. And at one point I started to get some well, I shouldn't say at one point I got that backlash quite a few times from people who would say, I don't have to do anything you tell me to do.

Patricia Muir
I say, Well, I'm not here to tell you what you have to do. But as we know, a standard tells you what you have to do. I said, I'm here to help you to implement the standard based on what you're, you are, your owner or your manager wants, your CEO wants. I'm here to help you with that. And when I got that backlash, I thought, that has got to be a better way for me to deliver this rather than tell people what they have to do.

Patricia Muir
And that's when I found coaching. Hmm. Because for me, the difference to others consulting is telling people what to do or advising them what to do, whereas coaching is helping them to find the best way for them to do it for themselves.

Simon Phillips
So that process of discovery.

Patricia Muir
Yeah, so that was in the early 2000s. And since then I've used a blend of consulting because people still want to take some of the knowledge that I've built over the years and advice. So I'll get some advice. But the other part is about you show a little bit of advice, how are you going to use that? How can you use that best for your business?

Patricia Muir
And so I worked in what many of us call very male dominated businesses, and this is where I got the backlash quite a bit. Now, like from an I.T. director, keep saying I'm not doing anything you told me to do. I had a problem of trying to get them to get buy in from them. Okay. So that showed up in that GC Index as well.

Patricia Muir
BECK Trying to influence people like I know there's great things for you to do, but try to influence them and get them to come on board was a difficulty for me.

Simon Phillips
Right?

Patricia Muir
Coaching does help because then that puts the accountability on the client for them to determine how they're going to use this so they can take as much as I give and advice. But helping them to identify how is that going to work best for them, I think that is the game changer for me in that part of the profile is I'll come up with the ideas.

Patricia Muir
They will appreciate some, some of them they will get, but helping them to use the ones that they want to use and for them to implement in their business. I think that that's been a strong motivator for me because then I don't have the hands on anymore. I don't have to actually hold their hand to do it. I give them the space to determine how they're going to do it themselves.

Simon Phillips
Nice. Brilliant. So bring us right up to date then. Patricia, what are you up to at the moment? I'm sure your game changer creativity has been buzzing away. So what have you come up with?

Patricia Muir
Okay, so one of the industries that I was in for many years, many years is automotive. And they love doing things the way they did many years ago because it worked for them. And as much as I did not want to let go of this clients, the pandemic sort of helped me with that. I told them, It's time I'm not able to meet your needs by actually coming in anymore.

Patricia Muir
So this really opened up the area where I really love to work, and that is where women leaders, women entrepreneurs and women executives know I now work with numerous contacts that are all about women entrepreneurs, and one of them is women's leadership or entrepreneurs. And I just love working with them because many of them are millennials. And we know that millennials get a bad wrap sometimes.

Patricia Muir
But I find if they're a millennial that goes into entrepreneurship, they are so hungry for what we can provide wisdom for them that I love working with them because just trigger an idea and they want to go with it. And the other part of working with women on businesses is that I am an assessor. I took my all the auditing qualifications into the area of assessing women owned businesses and supporting other underrepresented businesses such as the gay lesbian community on business owners.

Patricia Muir
And I assess their business to ensure that they they have a good solid system where they are the owner, they are they are able to manage the operations and they have control over the operations. So I use my assessment skills in that area, but it's great for me because I'm able to process the connections between the women's leadership and also the assessment business.

Patricia Muir
And I've made many great connections for myself, but in that network for them to work together. And so I have quite a great roster of women-owned businesses that I can tap into and also network with and also leaders such as you, because I met you. Simon Through one of my connections and my women's network.

Simon Phillips
We did. You did. Well, I'm fascinated to hear more about that. But we're going to take a quick pause now and we'll come back and explore just how you're doing, all of those amazing things with these female entrepreneurs. Brilliant. I hope you're enjoying the show so far. We'll be back in just a moment. My special guest, Patricia Muir.

Simon Phillips
We've been exploring all things, entrepreneurial standards. Well, so we've gone all over the place. We've gone from Canada to the UK with our show. This is nonstop. So, Patricia, tell me if you were to look at your diary and and get excited about the week ahead, what might stand out.

Patricia Muir
What really stands out for me now is at the work that I'm doing to develop programs or women entrepreneurs and executives who are looking fulfillment after 60. And so a lot of that work is around content, me delivering content. So I do have a weekly blog and my best days are when I'm writing and my my better days is when I actually post and get my newsletter set up for Sunday morning, which I call the Self-care Sunday and it all helps, you know, being your best, whether you are an entrepreneur, whether you are an executive.

Patricia Muir
But it's it also taps into some of the the current day issues such as the gender, ageism, the double whammy that women are experiencing at the moment, and also how they can ensure that they they are their language, how they present themselves. It's all about equity as well. There's been a lot of conversation over the last couple of years about diversity, equity, equality and inclusion.

Patricia Muir
But I look at equity and belonging and so that is the message that I feel is missing and that's what I'm putting into my content.

Simon Phillips
That’s fascinating. So what are the I mean, you mentioned the notion of both gender and age getting in the way that how does that manifest? What are the experiences of some of your clients?

Patricia Muir
For many of our clients, I think it did become an international story a while ago where Lisa LaFlamme who was a broadcaster very well thought of in Canada, was on ceremoniously let go. And so big, very a flurry of online conversations about this and about how during the pandemic she decided to just let her hair grow gray. Naturally, she got a lot of backlash for that from the upper echelon in the CTV organization.

Patricia Muir
Actually the CEO, say, who gave her permission to do that. So then a big flurry of conversation about that. Now about not only are women marginalized and even in positions where they have a lot of a lot of things to say and one of the things that came up was maybe she was too vocal. Now, we wouldn't normally get that in other positions, but in her position as a woman, like that's the first one.

Patricia Muir
So she's a woman too vocal. Okay. Even though she's a news broadcaster, she's supposed to deliver the news and then the other side was the ageism part and she was let go. Now, her predecessor, when he retired in his seventies, they had a big ceremony around him, leaving with her. Suddenly she just not was not on air anymore.

Patricia Muir
While but she went to Twitter and told her story. And so it was a big story and I believe it was international. The what came out of that was that another TV station picked her up in time, sadly enough, to to go to the UK and be the the key reporter on the Queen's Jubilee. So as sad as that was, she was on the world stage name now.

Simon Phillips
Yeah. Well it when you think about things like that, it just seems incredulous doesn't it, that somebody is not measured by their talent or their skills or their ability to do the job. But they're, they're measured or judged by what age they are or how they look. And you know, that we we talked previously about your GC Index.

Simon Phillips
The GC Index is used quite often now by recruiters because it helps people in a recruitment process to overcome that subconscious bias that, you know, I need somebody who looks like this and and who has this particular and these particular attributes, even if that's going on subconsciously, what they found with the GC Index is that it makes no difference.

Simon Phillips
There's no trends that says, well, all women have this particular type of profile, all people of color have that type of profile, all people with a disability have that profile. We're all different. We all want to contribute. We all want to make an impact differently. And that's what should be being embraced, not not any particular, you know, the way you know, it's not about the way you look.

Simon Phillips
and it's sad that that still goes on in this day and age, but fantastic that there are people like you who were out there supporting people like that to decide what they're willing to accept and what they're not.

Patricia Muir
[unintelligible] And what's interesting about that, you were talking about recruitment part. I think most organizations are attuned to that, about biases not coming into the recruitment, but the biases are so deep that even when a person is hired or has been working for an organization and contributing for many years at a very high level.

Simon Phillips
Yeah.

Patricia Muir
That bias is still used, sometimes unconsciously and sometimes consciously to to make that decision that is not equitable, that is against everything that should be equitable. For example, Lisa LaFlamme part of that story, but there's many, many other women that I know that in my program. For women who are returning to work during and after cancer treatment, they have built amazing careers in a corporation where they are now.

Patricia Muir
They have a seat at the table, whether their voice is still there, that's another thing. But they have a seat at the table. But then when that woman is diagnosed with cancer and goes through cancer treatment, she comes back to all those fresh biases again, that which creates self-doubt for her and affects her self-regard and her ability to come back to work.

Patricia Muir
And so interesting how those biases are so deep that without us even knowing them, they're used as tools to to discriminate, basically. And yeah.

Simon Phillips
It's those glass ceilings that we talk about in organizations and yeah, well, I just think the work you're doing there is fantastic. Patricia is it There is so much work to do in it and I wish it was different. I wish it was not the case and the actually, you know, as we said earlier, that people were promoted by through sound judgment around their capability as opposed to anything else.

Simon Phillips
Anyway, you were there. You're helping and supporting and and I'm guessing you're getting great results. Yeah.

Patricia Muir
Yes, I am. What what just though, is that some hr Director is no guest. You know, they look at that on barton. This program is so that's a frustration for me. So i know that, yeah, I have to do more work on that. And I feel now that I have the opportunity to be more outspoken about things like that as well.

Patricia Muir
And so I think this is where my game changer is really going to shine, is that I'm going to be able to do that on the whole.

Simon Phillips
Are.

Patricia Muir
Offering nothing, right?

Simon Phillips
We have a world.

Patricia Muir
Look out for us. Yeah.

Simon Phillips
Fantastic, Patricia. We're going to take another quick break and then we'll be back. I wanted to ask you about a time in your life of maybe significant change and and how you got through it. What skills and models and understandings helped you navigate those waters. So we'll be right back in a moment. We're talking before the break about the real challenges that people.

Simon Phillips
Well, not just any old people, but maybe the females in our society and the ones that are maybe advancing in their years. But that seems to be I'm prejudiced against that. Rather than welcoming that and embracing the skills as the qualities and the experiences that these people have. And luckily for them, Patricia's out there campaigning on their behalf and I'm working with them and coaching them and making sure that they recognize and feel confident in what they have rather than wondering if they're still, you know.

Simon Phillips
Quite often the feedback we get from the world can can impact us and make us feel like we're not good enough. And and I'm sure that the work Patricia is doing with those people is helping them reimagine what life can be like once they get back out there. So that was what we're talking about before the break.

Simon Phillips
But Patricia, tell me you have this lovely raise that sort of summarizes your career in just a couple of sentences you want to share that with with the audience?

Patricia Muir
Okay. Well, first of all, I want to thank you for using the phrase advancing in age or advancing in years. We're looking for ways to express like, well, what is that? Is that aging? And we don't want to be thinking about that or is that that the landing getting shorter, though, and perhaps getting shorter? It's a significant change in my life was actually a real shock to me after a great career and great feedback from other people that I worked with, like from CEOs.

Patricia Muir
I worked for an organization that was brutal. The first year was brutal and I was fired. I was fired up 40. I was just called in one day and said, We don't want you anymore. And that that's really a blow to someone who feels that they're doing fairly well. So that was a real game changer for me because I decided that was not going to happen to me again.

Patricia Muir
And I've heard other women say that too. But back in the 1990, it wasn't common for people to say that and then go out on their own and build a business. They might go out and do some work here in their temporary work, but they went back into employment. I did not go back into employment. I started my business and it was going very well at the height of my career, doing very well in business and having great clients, clients working with them for many years and all still being very satisfied with the work that we were doing together.

Patricia Muir
I came across another change and that was I was orphaned at 60. And so that sounds a little odd to be orphaned at 60, but it is it's like you don't have your parents there anymore as your very strong foundation. And I cared for both my father and my mother over their last couple of years, which was a drain on my business.

Patricia Muir
Of course, I had to make some changes to how I was working, where I was working before remote work was popular. Yeah, at at the same time, I became the family matriarch. So huge expectations on me. And then at 62, because of what I believe is the stress over those years, I had diagnosis of breast cancer. Now that was at the height of my business again.

Patricia Muir
So at that time I was able to look after the logistical part of my business. And I believe that's what all great entrepreneurs are able to do, were able to look after the basics, like look after clients. But for me, it was not so much about returning to work and being able to look at the logistics. It was about what I felt to my heart.

Patricia Muir
It was emotional. So that was my challenge that I had to get over. Now, fortunately, it's something you work on all the time, but fortunately for me, my background in a standard that is for accommodating people with disabilities and cancer treatment is a temporary disability. I was able to put together my own accommodation plan, which included the emotional side, not just the logistical side.

Patricia Muir
Yeah. So I take that to employers now and say this is what we need to focus on, not just whether, but you need more time off. It's about how are we helping her to feel coming back into the workplace when she is coming onto the board again and she's addressing biases around the table. And so at now, at the age of 70, I am still busting all those myths and helping women to find fulfillment.

Patricia Muir
After the age of 62, my coaching programs. And it does require a shift in mindset of letting go off who we were before so that we can flourish and find fulfillment and self-actualization after the age of 68. But now I'm after the age of 70, so I just keep on going and I just love what I do.

Simon Phillips
You do? And you haven't even mentioned the podcast.

Patricia Muir
The funny that is, but that's so. And yeah, I have a YouTube channel that I started with for women who enjoyed working after 60, and a colleague of ours, Simon and I are her. She said to me, You really have to go live with this now. She says, No more recordings. Just go live and do it. Podcast. So I've set up a podcast now that is called Executive Encore, and I actually bought that domain about 15 years ago.

Patricia Muir
Executive Encore Women Finding Fulfillment After 60.

Simon Phillips
Yeah, love it. And you know what was stood out in your story there was was how something that you were using inside organizations you found a way to apply for yourself and it helped you through those through those processes. And I think that sometimes we scramble around looking for new ideas and new things, and actually some of the best some of the best tools are the ones that we've already experience, and we just need to think about them in a different context.

Simon Phillips
And and that's less what you did there. And it really obviously worked. So that remind me again was it was fired at 40.

Patricia Muir
Yes.

Simon Phillips
It was.

Patricia Muir
An orphan at 60.

Simon Phillips
And at 60.

Patricia Muir
Cancer at 62. And fulfillment at 70.

Simon Phillips
Fulfillment at 70. I love it. And I the reason why I wanted to go back to that was because you use the word orphaned at 60 and I was wondering whether that was do you think that was because you were caring for them, you know, in the last years of their life or was that was that just how you would have felt, whether you'd been that close to them at the end or not?

Patricia Muir
I think it's because of as big broadly here. Most of us still have the feeling that we'll have our parents around forever. Yeah, it's unrealistic. Some of us are fortunate to have our parents around for a long time, and some of us, like both my parents, were orphaned very young in their life and like during World War Two.

Patricia Muir
So for me, the concept that being orphaned my parents would always be there and my parents were always the very strong foundation they they brought us to Canada when I was five years old and created a new life. And they were they were in their twenties, early twenties, and my mum traveled on her own. But after my dad had been here for a while.

Patricia Muir
So to lose then, regardless, it was hard. So I've been a person. I was I am. I really delved into caring for them, but it was hard. It was like I did have help from my brothers, but it was more because of me being the first born and the girl. I took over the role of being the matriarch afterwards.

Patricia Muir
And actually I would like to share something that my dad said to me just before he did pass away. He knew each one of us really well. He said to me, I know you'll be all right. I know this one will need some help. But he said for you, he says, I want you to take care of yourself.

Patricia Muir
I want you to do what's best for you. Not in a selfish way, like identifying what would help me. And the last part was jeopardize what you've built for yourself. So that goes in every newsletter as my book is, quote, It's my dad's quote, but I sort of inherited this. And take care of yourself. I do what's best for you and don't jeopardize what you've built for yourself.

Simon Phillips
Love it. Love it. Well, a kiss from Patricia.

Patricia Muir
Thank you. I do every time I have so.

Simon Phillips
And nobody gets off The Change Show without telling us about a track that that means the most to them. Maybe it's attached to at a specific moment in their life, for it's just pure inspiration. So what would you like to add to The Change Show playlist?

Patricia Muir
Okay. Enya's Watermark.

Simon Phillips
Oh, okay. So come on and tell me about this one.

Patricia Muir
Okay, So Watermark came out about the time I was fired when I was 40 and it was just so inspiring for me to have that. It's just a short track, but it's a short track that is very good for grounding and I'm pleased to listen to that both in my car and in my living room when I needed something to ground me through this time where there was uncertainty.

Patricia Muir
But just the beauty of the music inspired me.

Simon Phillips
Love it, love it. So this it this takes us back a while, isn't it? And yeah, so. Yeah. And the first time you heard it?

Patricia Muir
Yeah, the first time I heard it, I was suddenly, I think it was when I was driving home. So it's New age, so it wasn't very out there at that time. In the early 1990s, but it was when I worked for a CEO who I really admired and he actually put me on the path to. He said.

Simon Phillips
Yeah.

Patricia Muir
You can more or less do whatever you want with the skills that you have and with how you look at business. So he was very encouraging. Then of course, I went into another organization that absolutely destroyed who I was. I thought, but it was around that time. So it was very uplifting the messages I was getting from him.

Patricia Muir
And it was a time when I really felt I was reducing myself into being myself because I believe 40 is a great that's a great number you show is back there. But 40 is a great number. And I went back to school, I went back to university. I started to build even more my education. The world just opened up to me.

Patricia Muir
So I think that's why that piece of music is just so significant for me. When I heard it and what was going on in my life at that time.

Simon Phillips
Lovely! Well, it'll make a great addition to the playlist. Thank you, Patricia That that those of you who who want to find it, it's on the, the Spotify playlist, The Teen Show. So go then and have a listen. I'm sure that you'll love it. Patricia, thank you so much for being such an amazing guest today. I really enjoyed our conversation.

Patricia Muir
Thank you, Simon. I really enjoyed that as well. Thank you very much.

Simon Phillips
Okay. Well, you take care and we'll catch up again soon for everybody else. Have a wonderful week and we'll see you right back here again next week. Have a great one!